Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120
02/27/2018 10:00 AM House FISHERIES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB386 | |
| HB272 | |
| HB260 | |
| HB231 | |
| HB188 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 231 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 272 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 260 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 386 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 188 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 272-TANGLE LAKES STATE GAME REFUGE
10:43:41 AM
CHAIR STUTES announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 272, "An Act establishing the Tangle Lakes State
Game Refuge; and providing for an effective date."
10:44:09 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ANDY JOSEPHSON, Alaska State Legislature, stated
that HB 272 was presented two weeks ago, and a PowerPoint
described the nature of the bill. He briefly recapped the bill,
noting the bill was introduced because of an interest in
creating the Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge by people along the
highway corridor. He stated that he received an e-mail
yesterday from Marty Parsons, DNR, and read a quote from the
email, as follows, "Our research indicates that there are no
active claims in the Tangle Lakes area under consideration in
Representative Josephson's current legislation." His staff
presented a PowerPoint that showed a handful of claims in the
Southeast Alaska corner of the proposed TLSGR, but those are not
currently active.
10:46:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON referred to a memo from Mr. Robert
Tobey, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska Department of
Fish & Game (ADF&G), dated December 19, 2002 to the Copper
Country Alliance. He read a portion of the last paragraph of
the memo [in members' packets], which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
It is my position that the importance of the Denali
Block as wildlife habitat, tourist destination, sport
fishing, subsistence food gathering and trapping area
exceeds all mining value. All these uses except
mining have minimal impact on the land and are
renewable yearly. Certainly an impact study and cost
benefit analyses are warranted in view of the high
value of current uses compared to an unknown mining
value.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON suggested that this was a "friendly
letter" from Governor Murkowski's administration. He referred
to a letter of March 2008 from Cliff Judkins, Chairman, Board of
Game [in members' packets], who asked for immediate discussion
and immediate consideration of a game refuge in this area.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON emphasized that the concept of a state
game refuge in the Tangle Lakes area has been considered for
some time and continues to be requested.
10:47:48 AM
CHAIR STUTES opened public testimony on HB 272.
10:48:32 AM
CARL PORTMAN, Deputy Director, Resource Development Council
(RDC), testified in opposition to HB 272. The RDC encourages
the exploration and responsible development of Alaska's natural
resources, he said. He stated that creating a new refuge would
restrict or eliminate the potential opportunities in the Tangle
Lake area, including mineral development. Further, it would
create new restrictions to land use at a time when the state
faces fiscal and other challenges.
MR. PORTMAN pointed out that Alaska already contains 70 percent
of the federal national park lands, 85 percent of the federal
national wildlife refuges, and two of the largest parks in the
nation, and many other state conservation units such as game
refuges. The RDC supports multiple use of lands, such as
recreational use and other potential uses. The state must focus
on ways to show that Alaska is open for business. He urged the
committee to reject HB 272.
10:50:09 AM
BARRY WHITEHILL, Board Member, Alaska Chapter, Backcountry
Hunters and Anglers (AKBHA), stated that the AKBHA has long
supported the Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge (TLSGR). He stated
that this area has been the breadbasket for Southcentral Alaska
for subsistence and recreational hunting, fishing, and berry
picking. Many members know that the Denali Highway has been the
premier route for tourist destinations. It certainly has the
archeological protections in place for some of the segment, and
some Fairbanksans travel to the area to hunt and fish. He
acknowledged the importance of hunting and fishing to Alaskans.
He offered the AKBHA's support for the TLSGR.
10:51:48 AM
DEANTHA CROCKETT, Executive Director, Alaska Miners Association
(AMA), stated that the sponsor's statement states the potential
for nonrenewable activities in the region could irreparably
damage the environment. A century of experience shows this
premise, that one must choose between renewable and nonrenewable
resources to be false.
MS. CROCKETT said the Denali Highway region around the proposed
refuge has been the subject of mineral exploration since the
turn of the century and modern mining exploration increased in
this region in the 1990s. While most of the activity occurred
outside the proposed refuge area, work has occurred within and
substantial exploration has taken place to the north where
access would be impeded by the refuge. History has shown that
nearby large mines have not created long-term impacts asserted
by the sponsor, and have, in fact, avoided the impact through
the mining industry's expensive regulatory process. Most of the
recent exploration has been helicopter supported with little
ground impact. Neither DNR or ADF&G have found that exploration
has caused significant effects on recreational wildlife.
MS. CROCKETT said that when the same refuge was proposed about
ten years ago, the DNR stated that very few people using the
Tangle Lakes area, or the Delta Wild and Scenic River even knew
that metal exploration was occurring in the area. Most of the
proposed refuge area was within DNR's Tangle Lakes
Archaeological District Special Use Area, enacted in 2003. At
the time, DNR assessed the area and concluded that unrestricted
motorized recreation had the greatest potential to cause
significant impact to cultural and heritage sites in the area.
For that reason, DNR enacted rules to manage recreation in the
area, which is a vehicle for additional rules if they become
necessary.
10:53:30 AM
MS. CROCKETT stated that if the area is not closed it was likely
to be explored again. She characterized the area as highly
mineralized host to the incredibly rich Kennecott copper
deposits. The significant potential of minerals has been
included in the recently published list by the US Geological
Survey (USGS) of minerals that are critical to national defense
and the economy. A secure supply of domestic sources of these
minerals is a priority for our country and it should be for
Alaska, as well, she said.
MS. CROCKETT said that it has been proven in Alaska that the
state does not need to make a choice between the environment and
resource development. The AMA strongly opposes the proposed
refuge in HB 272.
10:54:20 AM
JOEL ELROD, Greater Copper Valley Chamber of Commerce (GCVCC),
stated that the GCVCC offered its opposition to HB 272, for many
of the same reasons that Mr. Portman mentioned.
10:54:55 AM
CHAIR STUTES, after first determining no one wished to testify,
closed public testimony on HB 272.
10:55:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked for further clarification on the
health of the Nelchina Caribou herd and if the numbers were
increasing or decreasing.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON answered that he did not know. He
commented that at least 40 people have written in support of HB
272, expressing their concerns about the health of the Nelchina
caribou herd. This was also referenced in the previous letter
mentioned by the Chairman of the Board of Game in 2008 and the
Division of Habitat, ADF&G in 2002. He stated that this bill
was about protecting that herd.
10:56:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT pointed out that the bill had no Finance
Committee referral and had two zero fiscal notes; however, both
fiscal notes referred to absorbing the costs of the bill into
current budgets. He said that state agencies have complained
that they cannot accomplish their responsibilities within
current budgets. He stated that any costs associated with the
bill should be reflected in the fiscal notes and offered that
the legislature needed quality fiscal notes from the
administration in order to accurately formulate a budget.
10:58:20 AM
JOE MEEHAN, Coordinator, Division of Wildlife Conservation
(DWC), Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), answered that
as the fiscal note stated, the division would add the new duties
associated with the proposed refuge into the division's existing
workload.
10:58:43 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked at what point in time the ADF&G
would absorb so much work that the department could no longer
absorb more and would require additional funding.
MR. MEEHAN said he could not answer that question. He explained
that the management plan development permit applications were
prioritized based on public interest and needs. He acknowledged
that the division would need to prioritize requests.
10:59:29 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT further asked what would be left off the
current workload to make this happen.
MR. MEEHAN said that the current workload includes administering
management plans, permit reviews, and field operations. He
stated that primarily field operations deal with monitoring
resources, encouraging public use and education. He could not
specifically identify what would be dropped if the new refuge
was created. He further stated that the division would
obviously have to juggle priorities dealing with the type of
field activities that the ADF&G engage in for refuge areas.
11:00:35 AM
CHAIR STUTES asked about the earlier question regarding the
Nelchina caribou herd.
MR. MEEHAN offered to respond back to the committee with
information on the Nelchina caribou herd.
11:01:00 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN offered his concerns about the herd by
the ADF&G 16 years ago were probably dated. He related his
understanding that the state had taken steps to address those
concerns. He also expressed concern that potential revenue from
mining in the proposed region would be lost, which concerned him
because the state currently faces a fiscal crisis. He
characterized this bill as looking through the lens of
supporting mining or opposing mining. Those who think mining is
good for Alaska would not likely support the bill but those who
oppose mining would probably find HB 272 to be a "great bill."
11:02:24 AM
CHAIR STUTES said that the committee received a lot more support
for the bill than opposition to the bill. She related that the
bill has two zero fiscal notes and it has come to light that
there are no mining claims in the area.
11:02:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked for further clarification as to
whether there were no mining claims within the proposed TLSGR or
if there were no active mining claims.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON responded that there were mining claims
in the Amphitheater area north of the border of the refuge. He
further responded that yesterday Mr. Marty Parsons, Deputy
Director, Division of Mining, Land & Water, DNR stated, "There
are no active claims in the Tangle Lake Area under consideration
in the current legislation."
11:04:13 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON moved to report HB 272 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Stutes, Edgmon,
Kreiss-Tomkins, and Tarr, voted in favor of reporting HB 272
from committee. Representatives Chenault, Neuman, Eastman voted
against it. Therefore, HB 272 was reported from the House
Special Committee on Fisheries by a vote of 4-3.